I'm tired of the occasional self-conscious ripples that spread through the old-school blogosphere. [I'm sure similar shit happens in new-school crowds I'm just not around to see it] I'm sort of annoyed that there even is an "old-school" blogosphere, can't we all just be RPG Bloggers. No, I know we can't. I accept there are (valid) reasons. Some people are strictly interested in old-school or more accurately their narrow view of what old-school is. They don't have time to wade through the deluge of content. Can't blame'm, its a Sisyphean task. I know, look at that blog roll I follow! [1/2 you all need to quit posting interesting stuff.]
I've been perusing, playing, and pondering RPG stuff for almost thirty years. I learned from it all. Today I find my self strictly between the lines. In no mans land with old-schoolers telling me my unified mechanics are crap and new-schoolers not knowing how to have fun unless it is fed to them on a silver plated story.
Personally, I never felt that the old-school moniker applied even though I probably agree with 80% of what 90% of people say is old-school. Lately, the term has been gathering too much baggage. And that will only get worse as more people (no not you, them) realize there's money in them thar hills. Now, I wish to eschew the label completely. I'm starting my own school.
Fun-School, Bam!
Whatever you and your players have fun doing, that is fun-school. Whatever 4tards have fun doing, that is fun-school. It can't be argued over. Hopefully it can't even be talked about it. It's for gamers who don't want to be on either or any side, who want to proclaim non-affiliation with everything except fun.
Fun is the thing. We play games. Internet meta-arguments, tis for the other peeps. We're gamers first and preferred style of play second. ('Cept those Forge dorks, they're idiots)
So, Fun School dammit!
Wow, diatribe mode deactivate. My original plan for this post was to list out loud, brainstorm, and solicit advice on how my next campaign would be like. That follows.
I want rules-lite and rules-simple, I like a little crunch too. The ideal would be a game that was easy to pick up (10min) for newbies and that layered on options and features as the **players** gained experience. Something like Avalon Hill's "programmed instruction". I've considered doing very simple LL(that's BECMI right?) or OD&D until a player gets a character to say 3rd level. Then let them at expanded options for their next character.
No epics, no scripted encounters, no storypaths. No plot. Maybe plot hooks but undetailed. Left to the players to expand. This will be so sandboxy characters will be picking sand out of their..., it'll be a sandbox.
Long term, campaign play. Some games will be at my house, some will be at FLGS. Different mixes of players but all in the same world. I hope characters reach past name level, establish castles/towers/outposts in the wilderness thus creating "home bases" and possibly ruins ;) for the next wave of 1st levels. Proly the have henchmen become one when you die entourage flavor.
Less culture building, more environment building. That one is for the DM, me. Also Mythic Dungeon and Mythic Wilderness.
A game of bashing monsters (or better yet sneakin round them), stealing their loot and then squandering it!
Some quotes:
"Hey, I've created this world for you to come mess around in. The basic idea is that your PC is seeking fortune and glory. We'll riff off each other and see what kind of cool stuff comes out of it..." -- http://www.philotomy.com/
"I don’t want to play any game where my players can't buy sacks." -- http://www.thegamerdome.com/ from www.critical-hits.com
"To me, D&D is not about trying to recreate 12th century England. It's Conan meets Aragorn and Boba Fett to go kick Kulan Gath's boney behind." -- Hussar on EN World
Castles & Crusades and True20 are two systems that have piqued my interest. I'm playing the former and have quickly reviewed the later. I also dig Mutants & Masterminds and have seen the Swords & Sorcery conversion but it's too crunchy and evokes a play style and atmosphere I'm not wanting for this campaign. True20 also seems to lean that way so I'd proly Houserule the Hell Out of It. I've even considered running two rulesets to cover the broadest swath of Fun-School possible.
Rolemaster' every weapon has it's own chart and AD&D/others weapon vs armor. Both way too rules heavy/non-simple. But, I was wondering if having a 3x5 index card made up for each weapon that would have graphically well designed and simple chart would work well. This might even be a boon for newbies as it would have all the info and steps (roll d20, add to this) needed for combat in easy to handle card as opposed to buried in imposing character sheet. [more on this in a future post]
Heroic Paths from the Midnight RPG
NO PRESTIGE classes, Worst idea ever.
NO SKILLS. I don't even want simplified skills. I think players need to go cold-turkey on this.
No tactical combat, nearly 98% sure. Probably still use minatures for marching order, general grouping, etc.
Screw balance, esp for casters. I will work hard to make sure you have fun. If, in a roleplaying game no less, you can't have fun cause someone is more uber than you then gtfo and good luck with life.
Unified mechanics (to a degree). d20, roll high.
Less mechanics, less min-max. More S&S, more phantasmagorical, more bam!
Stats -> not important. But consistant! No different bonii for each stat. I dig how C&C assigns save to each stat. Proly 3d6 in order(it's fast!) Proly this, that +3 scares me...
18 +3
17 +2
16 +2
15 +1
14 +1
13 +1
No nostalgic need for every character to have different XP / combat charts [charts are for DMs] In fact I don't really even like the multitude of classes. True20(and OD&D) has the right approach. Three archetypes. Fighting Man, Casting Dude and Expert Guy. But with with no skills that last one is right out. I'm thinking to replace him with Jack'o'Trades. They'd have the middle combat, middle saves, possibility to learn some magic, extra perks/feats/whatever. For example if mixed in with SIEGE Engine Jack would get three Prime stats instead of two.
Class flexibility built into system and not dependent on class proliferation. GURPS and other generic systems are crunchy and flexible but they are metric tonnes of heavy. And so not even maybe 10min for chargen+rules explanation. Again True20 lookin good with it's three classes + feats.
Not sure about 3.x style multi-class. prolbably out, you min/max bastards.
Less "arbitrary" restrictions esp vs demi-humans lvl restrictions. (Gygax et al were flaggin racists <- joke). This ties into having special class abilities, why can only rangers track? Why do I need a special class just to have a wizard that can track? I like the concept of perks/feats/abilities aka "stuffs" gained with level advancement. But 3.x splat'o'feat is the ugly way. Star Wars Saga Edition does it ok. True20 and/or Midnight are ok. And it needs to not be a power escalation tool or min/max playground. The stuffs need to provide more options, not boost existing options.
[I have to digress to mention the coolest new word I learned today. Truel, a three way duel.]
"Conditions" from 3.x, proly needs less of them but I like the concept.
The problem with all this; I've just described a massive homebrewed pile. So, I really need to make it seem like some published system. d20, C&C, True20, LL? Get players to make that first step into the world. Once they're there having a blast they won't care what the rules are.
Then there would be an un-fun school? I don't know if this here is more dangerous...
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing wrong in putting a name on a set of common characteristics. I myself don't say they are "better", they are just the ones I like.
Oh, and my game has ascending AC, d20 type saves and multi-classing, just to let you understand what I'm saying better,
ReplyDeleteI've considered doing very simple LL(that's BECMI right?)I've been told that LL is Moldvay D&D -- but frankly, I don't see the difference and have been converting my BEMCI stuff to LL without batting an eyelash.
ReplyDeleteWell, except for commenting on spell progressions, but I did that for the funny ;3
Have you considered Risus? I think it fits most everything you want, except for the specifics like having 6 stats decided by 3d6.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, here's how I handle skills, feats and the like in my D&D derivative:
ReplyDeleteAny character can try anything that would be a feat or skill by making a save against the appropriate stat, e.g. Dex for climbing or shooting through a rope with an arrow, Int for recognizing a masked opponent by his sword style, Cha to fast-talk past a guard. (I use a DC 15 check, with bonuses penalties for the stat and difficulty, but you could just roll d20 or 3d6 below the stat or whatever.)
Every level the character gets to pick a new Talent. Talents are broad categories, along the lines of Risus cliches, like Sailor, Woodsman, Smooth Talker, Thief. Talents have a score rolled on a d6. So you might have Sailor 1, Horseman 4. Whenever you need to make a save, you get to add the Talent bonus if applicable. E.g. +4 to the Int save for recognizing good horse flesh; +1 to Dex save for climbing a rope (since sailors climb ropes). When you level up you get to choose a new Talent and reroll the scores for your existing Talents to see if you've improved them. You can not take the same Talent twice, and players are encouraged to take Talents that reflect what they've been doing on their adventures.
High five! I've been kinda annoyed with the Old Schooler mentality lately myself. I felt awful for blogging my opinion of it (it's kinda like sinking to their level) but at the same time, I felt more voices needed to be heard saying "Get a grip guys." I went with Nontrad Gamer; although Fun-School is awesome and I'll wear that one too. I also debated Home Schooled, Saturday Schooled, Summer Schooled, Skipped School....etc.
ReplyDeleteAddressing your fun-brewed system, it makes me smile. It reminds me of how I used to run AD&D 1E and butchered the magic system and gave everyone cool abilities to keep it fun. Mind you, that gave me permission to warp the hell out of the Monster Manual stats and slaughter the players with crazy things unheard of.
*sigh* good times, good times.
I don't often pimp out my own games to this extent, despite dealing with the constant temptation to. My game The Adventurer's Tale sounds like just what you're asking for. It was very much knocked out in my spare time so don't expect high production values, it just seems to match your preferences nicely.
ReplyDeletehttp://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddmbxmt_58h2xcgfk&hl=en
It's not D&D based so no d20s, no 3d6 ability scores, but give it a look all the same!
4tards? Can I call old-schoolder Grogtards?? :D
ReplyDelete@Tom
ReplyDeleteIf you so desire
@SuperSooga, @jamused
Thanks, I've put Risus(which I know about but never looked into) and The Adventurer's Tale in my queue of things to look at. And Super pimp that bad boy! If you don't who will?
@jamused "Any character can try anything that would be a feat or skill by making a save against the appropriate stat"
That sounds like Castles & Crusades / SIEGE Engine. It looks like a great way to handle things.
"Every level the character gets to pick a new Talent."
Talent, yes, thanks that is the word I was looking for instead of feat/proficiency.
@Rev
Nontrad Gamer is a wee bit close to Nontard Gamer which works to I guess.
@Santiago
The problems with names is it gives people something to argue over and talk on and on about (like we are doing now). Which is ok but too many people talking and not playing, one get's tired of it.
@taichara "I've considered doing very simple LL(that's BECMI right?)I've been told that LL is Moldvay D&D -- but frankly, I don't see the difference and have been converting my BEMCI stuff to LL without batting an eyelash."
There's a difference (well I guess you're telling me there's not) between Moldvay and BECMI? Other than the ECMI that is. It's all too complicated. From now on I'm gonna try to just call what I do D&D. Just D&D, except when it's not. Like when I get to play Star Frontiers, as if!
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Like I said I hadn't intended to rant the light fantastic. It flowed out as I started writing. Which, I suppose, means I needed to expunge some pent up angst.
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ReplyDeleteI swiped the Talent name and basic mechanic from Tunnels & Trolls 7.5 (another possibility if you want something dead simple, but a little more traditional and crunchy than Risus).
ReplyDeleteHi Norm. Great article. Fun School is an ideology I can happily subscribe to.
ReplyDeleteI know it's 3E-ish in power level, but you might want to look at Keith and Frank's Tome Series for pointers on bringing feats into LL. They presented a dandy system of scaling feats in "Races of War" where just taking one feat allows you to gradually grow into a master (whatever) as you level.
No more dead end feats. No more being locked into a chain.
The system as written may not be ideal for your purposes, but I've found it useful food for thought.
I completely missed this post! Yeah man, if I ever decide to go back to school, it'd be fun school.
ReplyDelete